JUSTICE minister Given Lubinda has claimed that enacting Bill 10 is not a matter of life and death for the PF.
He argues that Constitution (Amendment) Bill Number 10 of 2019 is not an electoral issue.
Lubinda said those in the PF government wanted it enacted before next year’s elections because “we have spent so much time on it.”
Meanwhile, Lubinda, the Kabwata PF member of parliament, says 20 years of being in Parliament has taught him a lot about legislation and “nobody can challenge me.”
The minister also asked if it is fair for 12 Catholic Bishops to make a decision on behalf of the two million Zambians who are Catholics, yet regard it as incorrect for an elected government to speak on behalf of voters.
Lubinda was speaking on ZNBC TV’s Sunday Interview programme, in his continued bellicose defence of Bill 10.
“Let us go and meet on the floor of the House and amend the Constitution bill in any way and manner we wish. This for us in the PF is not a matter of life and death. This for us is a matter that is in the interest of Zambian people,” Lubinda claimed. “The issue of winning elections in 2021, if you were to ask me – even in my deepest of sleep, I will tell you that President Lungu shall retain his office in 2021. For the sake of those who have already started drafting a petition to petition the election results of 2021, let us amend this Constitution so that they can have 30 days, instead of 14 days.”
He asserted that the government would not let down Zambians after 42 months of “hard work” on Bill 10, “just because a few individuals say ‘no! We don’t understand what you wrote, so withdraw’.”
“We’ll proceed and the ones who have the numbers to make the two thirds if they say no, we’ll go to the Zambian people and tell them banakana (they refused),” he said. “In August 2021, I’ll come here (on ZNBC TV) and say banyala (shame on them). That’s how confident we are, and this constitution-making process for us is not an electoral issue. [But] we want it before elections because we have spent so much time on it.”
Asked by the programme host, Grevazio Zulu, if the PF and President Edgar Lungu wanted to perpetuate their stay in power using Bill 10, Lubinda disdainfully responded: “yes, if that will make people happy.”
“It (bill 10) will make us stay in power because the people will see that these people are genuine, they are honest. They (opponents) started by saying this process of amending the Constitution, they want to increase the term of office for the President to seven years…” Lubinda said. “Tell me [a clause] which says that we want to perpetuate our stay in power. Kulibe (there’s nothing). So, the ones who are saying that banyala (shame on them).”
He asked if Bill 10 should not be enacted simply because some members of parliament were gifted in doubting the sincerity of others.
“They have not said ‘we don’t like anything.’ [But] all they are saying is ‘we like what the [select] committee has said. However, we don’t trust that they will bring it into the bill.’ Is that a good reason when I know that there is a way of handling that? The Standing Orders are very clear and these members of parliament who are arguing about this, I want to remind them that there are Standing Orders in Parliament,” Lubinda said.
“Standing Order 109 to 117 are what provide for how a bill is handled. Once a bill is presented by whoever presents it, whether a minister or a backbencher, it is referred to a committee of Parliament.”
He said when a committee of Parliament goes through a particular bill, it receives submissions from people and make a report.
“At second reading, the mover of the bill presents it for second reading and then it is open to debate. The chairman of the committee of Parliament which looked at that bill presents the report formally on the floor of the House and says ‘these are our recommendations.’ Then everybody is at liberty now to debate…” he explained, stressing that he had not broken the law and procedure on his handling of Bill 10. “I read somebody completely cantankerous saying ‘this is not the way to amend the bill; the bill must be amended in Parliament.’ What I gazetted is not the committee report [but] I gazetted my bill with all the amendments I intend to move.”
Lubinda believes amendments in Bill 10 have enjoyed popularity among Zambians.
“[They are] amendments which the opposition are dancing about, they are very excited about. I have said because you don’t trust even yourselves and the procedures of Parliament, I’m going to show you how serious I am by getting all these issues that you like and put them in my bill and make it public so that everybody can see that I’m sincere,” he said. “I have published my amendments. You can’t amend a bill outside Parliament. 20 years of being in Parliament and not going to Parliament to drink tea! 20 years of being active in Parliament has taught me how to run issues of Parliament and nobody can challenge me. Nobody, I can assure you.”
Lubinda said he had moved amendments on the floor of the House before.
He said he amended the Republican Constitution when he was in the opposition.
“Go and look at the Hansard! The one who proposed the amendment to the Constitution to make sure that the date on which the [national] budget is read on the second Thursday of September is me. I was in the opposition,” Lubinda said.
Asked if he thought he could win public trust with publication of the Bill 10 amendments, Lubinda said “that’s what I was hoping for.”
“I cannot be faulted for not trying [but] I should be commended for trying. I’m not in control of people’s reactions,” Lubinda indicated
On the resolve by the Zambia Conference of Catholic Bishops (ZCCB) that Bill 10 must be withdrawn, Lubinda, a Catholic, said, “sometimes when you listen to such debates sometimes, you just resign yourself to the fact that nafishupa fye (it’s just difficult). Takwaba ukuwamya (there is no impressing). That’s what Bembas say.”
He was then asked why he was not giving up, if that was the case.
In response, Lubinda countered that: “why should I when I know that what I’m doing is right, I have been transparent?”
“So, it is okay for the college of bishops, 12 of them, to say we are making this decision on behalf of the two million Zambians who are Catholics! However, it is not correct for an elected government to speak on behalf of the electorate? Is that fair?” asked Lubinda. “Can you show me what they (Catholic Bishops) said is the reason for me to withdraw. Those who are saying ‘withdraw’ must show us the reasons why we must withdraw. If it is about those contentious issues…There has never been a consultative process on the constitution-making process like this one and sceptics must not derail the constitution-making process.”