PART 2: CONT’D [15mins read]
THE PEOPLE V FRED M’MEMBE & DANIEL MUMBA 13/05/2024
For A1: Chiwala, T. Munalula, S. Mwila, L.C. Lemba, N. Siwila
MUNALULA––
What happened first your visit to kamalamba or your visit to the mother’s shelter? The visit to the mother’s shelter.
Do you remember telling court that you had delivered food to the kamalamba camp Yes I remember
If at all you came to this place, did you come with any food? Yes
I put it to you that on the material day, you never spoke to Mr. Fred M’membe? I spoke to him
Has someone ever pointed a gun at you Yes
So you’re familiar with guns I know a gun when I see one but I’ve never used it before
But people have pointed guns at you before
I see guns from officers I know what it looks like
What is the most logical thing when a person fires a gun Then they’re warning you
Will a normal man follow a gun when they are being warned I would
Would a normal human being do that Yes they would
Between the alleged gun that was pointed at you, and someone walking behind you, which one of the two is life threatening? The person who’s coming behind whose actions I can’t see
It is your evidence that you only fell after the person behind you hit you I was in the process of falling then the person behind me hit me
Confirm that you fell because you were beaten Yes
I put it to you that you had liberty to pass through the busy main road I had the liberty to pass through the mother’s shelter
So you had liberty to pass through the mother’s shelter Yes because this is the route I know
Confirm that you attempted to charge at Mr. M’membe No
Confirm that you told court that you were walking to Mr. M’membe I was approaching because I wanted to speak to the driver and then I saw Mr. M’membe
Confirm that you said something different yesterday I don’t know
Confirm that you told court that you were grazed on the ear while turning to the right Yes Show court what happened DEMONSTRATED
Show the court when this bullet on the ear passed DEMONSTRATED A SCAR ON THE HEAD so you confirm that you were not hurt anywhere on the ear The bullet grazed me on the head
From which direction was the bullet coming? It came from in front of me
Show court how it passed
DEMONSTRATED THAT IT CAME FROM THE FRONT TO THE BACK
How many people were standing on the route as you were passing to approach Mr. M’membe I didn’t come here to count people
Do you remember that you told court that there was a car parked at the road Yes
Why didn’t you ask for the car at the road to be moved There were no people
Which statement is true between what you said about there being many people at the road and what you’re saying now? There were people people standing all over the place
You told the court that there were a lot of people, you walked from where the car was parked to where the President was without encountering anyone No one
What were you wearing on the material date A Tshirt and shorts Was it a UPND Tshirt No, it wasn’t
I put it to you that you were in UPND regalia No In your narration in examination in chief, you were just walking alone Yes from the car till I got here
So the socialist party were political opponents to you at the time, yes? Yes
Weren’t you guided that you cannot go to a place where others are doing their campaigns from? We were told
I put it to you that you came to disrupt a meeting here at the mother’s shelter I did not know that there was a meeting, I just knew that we were blocked in the road
Confirm that you knew the places were meetings were being held I knew some places, but I didn’t know others
MWILA––––––
It is your evidence in court as well as your statement given to the police that Mr. M’membe’s gun grazed your ear, yes Yes
Show court which part of your ear was grazed I said it was close to my ear
Show the court the part of the ear POINTED AT THE TOP OF THE EAR was there a scar
It was small
What happened to the scar I can’t see it because it’s on my ear
Show court your ear WITNESS SHOWED COURT HIS EAR
Is that scar visible to people I don’t know, it’s people who see me
Should I take a picture of you or do you have a mirror with you I see it in the mirror
Apart from being a driver what else do you do? Nothing else
If I put it to you that you’re a political cadre who causes violence would that be true? No
Would I be right if I said at some point you were charged for assault as a result of political violence No
SIMBEYE––––––––––––––––
Where do you stay? Isoka
Would I be right to say you don’t know this place very well? I know some places but I don’t know others
You said from your knowledge of this place, passing through the mother’s shelter was the only route you knew? Yes
Were you the leader of the team that was proceeding to kamalamba that day? No
So did you consult with your friends what you could have done when you found this road blocked, especially your leader The leader remained in the vehicle and he told me to come and check as I was already outside
Is the gun that you allege to have grazed you, the last one you heard To me, it was the only one
Are you saying that was the only gunshot Yes C
Can you confirm that you never reached where the other car was parked at the shelter No
LEMBA––
Witness you do recall that you told court that you found a crowd as you were going to the school Yes Are you able to estimate?
I don’t know the number
Have a look at this crowd, between the crowd that was here on 8th April, 2023 and the one here today, which one is bigger The crowd I found on the 8th
And from where you’re standing you’re saying you were able to see what was happening behind you from the window Yes
Were you able to see people behind you I only saw the one who was walking behind me
So you only saw one person Yes You said you came with a car Yes
Confirm that you were driving the car No
Who was driving the car I don’t know, he came from somewhere else and I just met him then
When did you meet him? The day before the material date
Who do you remember anyone from that day? Chipo, Haggai, Victor and Charity
Confirm that you left the other people in the vehicle and you came alone to this spot Yes
And from this position you’ll confirm that you were not able to see where your colleagues were No
Confirm that during the campaign you had been to the school on several occasions I went there on three occasions, the one on the material date was the fourth
And confirm that on all those four occasions you did not know that there was an alternative route I did not know
Confirm that your group came with two motor vehicles as opposed to the one you said you came with I only came with the prado
Were you not in a group when you came to bring food In the car we were the eight of us
So there was no other car There was only one car So you’ll confirm that your group only came to this camp from Mililima in one car
That would be their issue, I’m saying what I know
XXN CONT’D AT KAMALAMBA SCHOOL CHIWALA
––Witness where are we? Kamalamba
Is this a primary school Yes
Confirm that this is the camp where your members were Yes
Confirm that yesterday in court you said that the only route to get to the school is through the mother’s shelter Yes
Now that we’re at the scene today, is that the correct position That’s the only route I knew Yes or no Yes That is the only route to come here Yes
Now that you’ve seen the main road today, the statement that you gave yesterday about that being the only route is not true No
You insist that it is the only route Yes
Is the route you used to get here today the only route you told court can be used to get here No
Confirm that you tried to mislead the court yesterday No
Confirm that your driver is Teddy Yes
Where did Teddy come from? Mumbwa
When we were at the mother’s shelter you said you did not know his name so how do you? I forget his name sometimes but I know it when I hear it
Was it Teddy’s first time bringing food here No, it was his fourth You’d been here three times before that incident, do you wish to depart from that statement No
So it means that you are aware that you can use the main road as opposed to using the route to the Mother’s shelter I didn’t know, I was new So every time you brought food, you used the mother’s shelter through the road that gets flooded leaving the tarmac Yes
Is it logical that you should leave the tarmac to use a flooded area There was no water at the time What month was it?
April–––––––– So there was no water there No, there was gravel and the water was at the side
You said the driver was teddy? Yes Who else accompanied you The people we came with on the material date How many were you
Eight
MUNALULA–––––––––––––––––
On the three occasions you came to kamalamba, do you recall driving whenever you came here No
You said you only knew the route from the mothers shelter, were you the driver of the car No Did you ever ask for directions to come to Kamalamba No
You were not responsible for the movements to come to kamalamba I was among the people responsible
You confirm that the knowledge of kamalamba primary school was vested in the driver There was a person bringing us here So that person knew the directions to kamalamba No
Do you see the poster at the entrance Yes
Are you able to read? I can read Have you seen that poster before? I had never seen it I saw it on the day I was coming back from the hospital
From the mothers shelter to here, or from the main road to here, which one is closer The main road
So you were never a driver at any time you came here No
You talked about a prado, yes? Yes And you had one leg inside and one leg outside Yes And this is a prado Yes
Were you seated on the window No, I sat on top of the vehicle and my leg was inside the vehicle
And that’s how you moved towards the camp of the socialist party Yes
WITNESS DEMONSTRATED HOW HE SAT
So you sat that way because the car was full Yes
How many were you Eight
So you stormed the socialist party camp with your group No
I was alone
Confirm that you were with many other UPND members in the car They were seven others and I was the eighth
Is it true that haggai knew this place well I don’t know, it’s up to him
Confirm that you went to a police post on the material date and even attacked people there No
If evidence was brought, what would be your reaction I never went there to make noise
You just went there to report I didn’t go there Who reported I don’t know who…
PART 3 will follow.