By Kombe Chimpinde Mataka
I AM on a mission, says Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) director general Gilbert Phiri.
He vows that however long it takes “we are going to get back what has been stolen from the Zambian people”.
Phiri also warns that the ACC will publicise case details of those who publish their callouts on social media.
When he featured on Radio Pheonix’s Let the People Talk Programme on Friday, Phiri said that the commission would not stop arresting because there were no convictions, stressing that the arrests were based on evidence garnered.
He said there are several factors that determined whether the commission would secure a conviction or an acquittal, including technicality.
“Yes we need convictions. This is why we have a fast track court, Economic and Financial Crimes Court and we like the impetus from the judges and I know the judiciary is working to ensure these courts become fast tracks in reality,” Phiri said. “The end result is this, anyone who has stolen from the Zambian people and has converted whatever he has stolen will never enjoy that loot, will never enjoy it. We are going to get it back to the Zambian people. If you have converted the money into housing, stock, bonds, property, vehicles, name it, wherever those things are – however long it takes we are going to get it back for the Zambian people. That is what gives me satisifaction and makes my…to run.”
Phiri, who has been appointed as Director of Public Prosecutions pending ratification by parliament, said if ratified the ACC and DEC would work closely with his office to prosecute corruption cases.
“You know I have been nominated to be DPP. When I get to that office, if I am ratified, you are going to see the two offices working together to capacitate the Anti-Corruption Commission investigation unit. Working together with DPP to ensure all these cases are efficiently and speedily prosecuted. DEC, ACC to prosecute these cases,” he said.
Phiri said the ACC would however not act on what he described as civic hysteria in prosecution corruption.
“We do not take this job lightly because there are two tests that we have to prove and we have to undertake. The first test of course is evidential test. Is there evidence? Every prosecution unit must consider the evidential test. Is there evidence? Not just evidence but is there evidence that can stand the cold light of scrutiny in a court of law because remember the bar for you to secure a conviction is very high ‘beyond reasonable doubt’. So in other words, when the court just doubts, a doubt is planted in the mind of the court, they are going to acquit. So that evidential test is the key test that we use and when considering the evidential test, we are asking ourselves can we prove this case using the evidence that we have beyond reasonable doubt? If the answer is yes fantastic. But we are not yet there because there is a second test that we have to consider, the public interest test. Is it in public interest for us to prosecute? If the public interest is not there we cannot proceed,” he explained.
“Irrespective of the civic hysteria because you know the way these things work, someone says something in a newspaper and then there is civic hysteria and hallubaloo. We are not informed by newspapers and chaotic civic hysteria. We are informed by the two tests I have told you. It is an extremely high bar – ‘beyond reasonable doubt’.”
Phiri said some cases sometimes failed on technical grounds regardless of the rigorous quality control process of charging and arresting.
“The public does not know what goes on behind closed doors at Anti-Corruption Commission and for me this is a mission. This is not a job. What wakes me up in fact is not an alarm, it is a mission to serve the Zambian public,” he said. “If in the past you fraternised with public resources or you came close to public resources or you had power to follow a certain procedure in distributing public resources and you did not do so and we call you to the Anti-Corruption Commission, it is because we think there is something we want to find out.”
He added that “when we ultimately arrest you and we take you to court, trust me we are fairly convinced of you worth of probing”.
“We are not saying you are guilty. This is why a Director of Public Prosecutions should be someone who is qualified to be a judge of the High Court,” he said.
Phir said the ACC was looking at current cases of corruption but would not stand on an anthill to announce “today we have started looking at X, no”.
“People are always scheming on how to lay their hands on public money and as the body mandated to fight corruption we are also always looking. There is nothing that is stopping us from doing so,” he said.
Phiri said the ACC was not targeting the opposition alone.
“Without blowing our horns, we know what we are doing. We have a fair idea of what we are doing. We are not targeting anyone. I know it is a perceptional issue, it may look like we are targeting someone, the reason being that most of the people that we call would be people that held positions or some influence in government. So they were awarded a tender or given on behalf of the public which they never did or things were inflated. It may look like it is a targeted fight but trust me it is in no way targeted. Who do the public want us to be calling to explain for example why a University FTJ was not built? Should I go to the Football Association of Zambia to call the footballers to come and answer for that?” he said. “I must call the guys that were involved and say we paid you $33 million, I do not see a university there. And from what I am seeing this money left the country. Who was involved? If drugs that were supposed to be supplied were not supplied or what was supplied was not for consumption by the public, I should then now go to Ministry of Defence and call the permanent secretary? We are targeting corruption. It does not matter who is behind it. If it begins to look like it is a section of people, that is not our motivation.”
Phiri said the challenge ACC was facing is discussions on corruption that were lacking merit.
“The problem with Zambia is and it starts like this. On any issue someone says something.
We do not interrogate even the merits what they have said. It becomes headline news, social media, politician X is here at Radio Pheonix talking about an issue without merits. In fact I have learnt that it pays to be a loud tin or a loud mouth because you attract attention regardless of merits of what you are talking about. We are a society that does not interrogate merit. It is hysteria that informs,” he noted. “This time we call you quietly you put it on social media, we will announce why we have called you. If we give you are callout, you come quietly and go quietly, everyone will be quiet. You and I will exchange a cup of coffee. We will have a chat amongst brothers and you quietly go to the car park and drive off. If people are going to be putting callouts on social media and then begin to whip public sentiment to make it look like they are being harassed, they are now leaving us with no option but to announce why we are calling them.”
Phiri said his job was not about compromising with people.
“It is a difficult role. This is public service. I consider it a mission. I consider it a calling. It is not a job that I go at 08:00 hours, drink coffee, swivel on a chair, leave a jacket on my chair and play around and knock off at five (o’clock). This is a mission. I am on a mission. This is a calling. I consider this sacred,” said Phiri.