Deluded dupes who think that’s how you walk away from a country you have been part of for more than a century. It’s a sign of immaturity and disorganisation for Linyungandambo’s leadership to think that these youths’ utterances are part of its dialogue with the government. These Barotse have always indirectly played an important role in all the governments we have had since independence through the vote and directly through holding of important positions in them.
The Litunga has an Prime Minister that clearly lives in his own deluded mind and is being swayed by individuals who think they are better suited to lead Zambia, and instead of using their brains to come up with policies that will bring hope to their citizens. They think instability is the way.
In all seriousness, the Katanga case shows why individuals have come back into politics, running away to deflect their crimes as politically driven as Trump suggests.
I would love to agree with you Gunner but can you help me understand this?When and what constituted Zambia? Was it NOT the coming together of Northern Rhodesia and Barotseland through the Barotseland agreement? What happens if someone decides to walk away from the agreement? Is the agreement still valid or intact? What if someone decides to walk away from a marriage agreement, will that marriage still be valid? I believe the answers are NO. So WHY do you BLAME these guys for stating what has happened to the Barotseland agreement. Ironically it is even called Barotseland agreement- which puts Barotseland at the centre. The Kaunda – Zambian government abrogated or walked away from the agreement in 1969 and since then Barotseland has been requesting Zambia to honour the agreement BUT Zambia has been arresting, maiming and killing those requesting it to do the right thing. Between you and these guys you are despising, who has facts on their side and WHO is HONEST? Seing that Zambia was NOT willing to cooperate, Barotseland accepted and respected Zambia’s choice and in 2012 they officially declared that the Barotseland agreement no more binds them and will resort to what they were before the agreement. Any logical, wise and reasonable being will have no challenge disputing this. I BELIEVE WE SHOULD BE MORE ACCOMMODATIVE AND BE FACTUAL IN OUR APPROACH TO THIS MATTER. Life and intermarriages will continue even if this happens. My request still is for us to be objective and accommodative
This is a simplistic understanding of the matter. I don’t think this agreement can be equated to the Tanzania agreement ( Tanganyika and Zanzibar).
As it stands, the only country these guys belong to is the prison.
Kozo, documentary evidence has been adduced to suggest that the Barotseland Agreement 1964 was brought to an end by the Litunga himself and Kenneth Kaunda’s government. During colonialism, the Barotse had no special status in Northern Rhodesia. They freely attemded school and sought paid work in the rest of the colony and required no special travel documents. The Agreement provides for petitioning of the Zambian High Court in the event of dissatisfaction by either party but this option has never been exercised. Please explain why. In functional democracies, there are political issues that are decided by a plebiscite because government leadership thinks the voice of ordinary would be critical. The Barotse question fits that description in my view. Why’s there no talk of a possible referendum/plebiscite by Barotse activist? I’m the first to admit that there’s an issue requiring attention by the government in Barotseland. However, I do not think it’s urgent.
Have these buffoons already surrendered their Zambian citizenship documents to the Zambian authorities? If not then they are just bluffing after being high on matokwani.
Gunner, there is one thing I can’t take away from you. Even though you hold a different view your willing to leave room for more information, correction and understanding which is where we definitely intersect.
You are right Tanzania is a combination of Tanganyika and Zanzibar just like Zambia – a union of Northern Rhodesia and Barotseland but the only difference is that Nyerere didn’t renegate on the agreement as KK did. The subsequent Tanzanian leaders remained faithful to the agreement. However, if KK himself could NOT be honourable enough – just like Nyerere, to keep his word, subsequent leaders felt the same and others like Rubia Banda went further to kill Barotses for bringing that to his attention. In case you didn’t realise it, this stand off started when HH sent police to seal off the graves of those who were killed(2011) so that their relatives and friends had to go in the forest to do that.At least other presidents like Sata allowed the people to visit the graves. I wonder if it is okay for those relatives to be annoyed with this kind of behaviour from the government. The need to be free and NOT be killed or mourn their relatives is an instinct that could have arisen in every normal human being. The president officiates in many memorials and should be no different if the dead are from our villages. They should also be accorded the same or some respect.
Referendum is a good point but KK didn’t use that to abrogate the agreement. Additionally, KK didn’t even consult the other signatory- the Litunga, let alone British who also signed. Do you see how and why this issue can’t go away? It also needs protocols and consultations which Barotseland people have been asking since 1969 till 2012 when the finally accepted the anormally and invited not only the Zambian government but diplomatic personnel in Zambia to attend the discussions that led to why they accepted the abrogation and return to their pre- agreement status. The Zambian government never countered any of their points and separation documents were signed in their presence. Despite this, Zambia still continued to intimidate Barotseland and didn’t want to hear even the mention of Barotseland. Those documents were given to embassies then later to SADC, AU, UN and EU. Who has been acting in a civilized manner all this time trying to solve this issue? Again, everything I stated is documented. It is my view that the aggression shown to these people may be due to ignorance or fear of facing the truth or the outcome thereof.
If we treated everyone as we would like to be treated, this should NOT have arisen just like in Tanzania. If parents messed up, let the descendants do the right thing(s) and peace will prevail
Deluded dupes who think that’s how you walk away from a country you have been part of for more than a century. It’s a sign of immaturity and disorganisation for Linyungandambo’s leadership to think that these youths’ utterances are part of its dialogue with the government. These Barotse have always indirectly played an important role in all the governments we have had since independence through the vote and directly through holding of important positions in them.
The Litunga has an Prime Minister that clearly lives in his own deluded mind and is being swayed by individuals who think they are better suited to lead Zambia, and instead of using their brains to come up with policies that will bring hope to their citizens. They think instability is the way.
In all seriousness, the Katanga case shows why individuals have come back into politics, running away to deflect their crimes as politically driven as Trump suggests.
Just arrest these idiots.
Others are eating. You are figjting the state. Bukuba luli.
Zesco cut them electricity first. Decommission all bridges
This is now treasonous. HH should be firm enough and proceed to arrest them. These chaps do not represent the majority of people in Western Province.
I would love to agree with you Gunner but can you help me understand this?When and what constituted Zambia? Was it NOT the coming together of Northern Rhodesia and Barotseland through the Barotseland agreement? What happens if someone decides to walk away from the agreement? Is the agreement still valid or intact? What if someone decides to walk away from a marriage agreement, will that marriage still be valid? I believe the answers are NO. So WHY do you BLAME these guys for stating what has happened to the Barotseland agreement. Ironically it is even called Barotseland agreement- which puts Barotseland at the centre. The Kaunda – Zambian government abrogated or walked away from the agreement in 1969 and since then Barotseland has been requesting Zambia to honour the agreement BUT Zambia has been arresting, maiming and killing those requesting it to do the right thing. Between you and these guys you are despising, who has facts on their side and WHO is HONEST? Seing that Zambia was NOT willing to cooperate, Barotseland accepted and respected Zambia’s choice and in 2012 they officially declared that the Barotseland agreement no more binds them and will resort to what they were before the agreement. Any logical, wise and reasonable being will have no challenge disputing this. I BELIEVE WE SHOULD BE MORE ACCOMMODATIVE AND BE FACTUAL IN OUR APPROACH TO THIS MATTER. Life and intermarriages will continue even if this happens. My request still is for us to be objective and accommodative
This is a simplistic understanding of the matter. I don’t think this agreement can be equated to the Tanzania agreement ( Tanganyika and Zanzibar).
As it stands, the only country these guys belong to is the prison.
Kozo, documentary evidence has been adduced to suggest that the Barotseland Agreement 1964 was brought to an end by the Litunga himself and Kenneth Kaunda’s government. During colonialism, the Barotse had no special status in Northern Rhodesia. They freely attemded school and sought paid work in the rest of the colony and required no special travel documents. The Agreement provides for petitioning of the Zambian High Court in the event of dissatisfaction by either party but this option has never been exercised. Please explain why. In functional democracies, there are political issues that are decided by a plebiscite because government leadership thinks the voice of ordinary would be critical. The Barotse question fits that description in my view. Why’s there no talk of a possible referendum/plebiscite by Barotse activist? I’m the first to admit that there’s an issue requiring attention by the government in Barotseland. However, I do not think it’s urgent.
Have these buffoons already surrendered their Zambian citizenship documents to the Zambian authorities? If not then they are just bluffing after being high on matokwani.
Gunner, there is one thing I can’t take away from you. Even though you hold a different view your willing to leave room for more information, correction and understanding which is where we definitely intersect.
You are right Tanzania is a combination of Tanganyika and Zanzibar just like Zambia – a union of Northern Rhodesia and Barotseland but the only difference is that Nyerere didn’t renegate on the agreement as KK did. The subsequent Tanzanian leaders remained faithful to the agreement. However, if KK himself could NOT be honourable enough – just like Nyerere, to keep his word, subsequent leaders felt the same and others like Rubia Banda went further to kill Barotses for bringing that to his attention. In case you didn’t realise it, this stand off started when HH sent police to seal off the graves of those who were killed(2011) so that their relatives and friends had to go in the forest to do that.At least other presidents like Sata allowed the people to visit the graves. I wonder if it is okay for those relatives to be annoyed with this kind of behaviour from the government. The need to be free and NOT be killed or mourn their relatives is an instinct that could have arisen in every normal human being. The president officiates in many memorials and should be no different if the dead are from our villages. They should also be accorded the same or some respect.
Referendum is a good point but KK didn’t use that to abrogate the agreement. Additionally, KK didn’t even consult the other signatory- the Litunga, let alone British who also signed. Do you see how and why this issue can’t go away? It also needs protocols and consultations which Barotseland people have been asking since 1969 till 2012 when the finally accepted the anormally and invited not only the Zambian government but diplomatic personnel in Zambia to attend the discussions that led to why they accepted the abrogation and return to their pre- agreement status. The Zambian government never countered any of their points and separation documents were signed in their presence. Despite this, Zambia still continued to intimidate Barotseland and didn’t want to hear even the mention of Barotseland. Those documents were given to embassies then later to SADC, AU, UN and EU. Who has been acting in a civilized manner all this time trying to solve this issue? Again, everything I stated is documented. It is my view that the aggression shown to these people may be due to ignorance or fear of facing the truth or the outcome thereof.
If we treated everyone as we would like to be treated, this should NOT have arisen just like in Tanzania. If parents messed up, let the descendants do the right thing(s) and peace will prevail